Something a little off the beaten track, but no less interesting for that.
Hi there, Josh here, and I'm going to piss off some of you by talking about Buddhism.
Mainly, by insisting to you that it is a religion.
"But Josh! I'm a Buddhist atheist, so surely, you are wrong!"
Ok. Well let's look at that; "Buddhist atheists" view the Buddhist teachings as philosophy, right? And since they only see it as philosophy, they're not following a religion.
I'm down with that... but I'd argue, then you're not really a Buddhist - merely a fan of the literature.
Before you balk at that, how many of you remember the uproar it caused when someone popped up claiming to be a "Christian atheist" a month or so back?
Man, people were pissed! It was kind of funny. Countless readers commented about how that was impossible!
Not that you can't be an atheist who reads the bible - I do that myself copiously - but that a "Christian" does not make.
You can even be an atheist who reads the new testament, and thinks Jesus is an OK guy to model your life after. I'd encourage you to read the thing again, as he actually came off as a prick to me, but that doesn't make you a Christian. Just a fan of a character in the book.
No more serious, necessarily, than dressing up like Superman and trying to help people. Little weird, but that's fine, I like weird.
A Christian is someone who believes in the concepts of Christianity - which involves a LOT of supernatural bullshit.
And a Buddhist follows Buddhism, which contains within it some fantastic bullshit of its own.
Karma, for instance, isn't exclusive to Buddhism, but it is an element of it. The idea that your actions - both positive and negative - create "seeds" that will grow into "appropriate" counter-action...
Bullshit.
And reincarnation! That you'll come back as something as something else, determined largely by your karma. This is a Buddhist belief.
Now... I said early on that you can be an atheist who appreciates Buddhist literature on a philisophical level. That's fine. You can even call yourself, then, a "Buddhist atheist" if you'd like.
Whatever makes you happy.
But strictly speaking, Buddhism is a religion. And it contains supernatural bullshit, like all the others.
If you call yourself a "Buddhist atheist" because you like some of their writings, then next time you may have a hard time arguing against a "Christian atheist."
Which you totally should argue against, especially since the last several I've seen never bothered to even read the bible. - Josh
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Dan Hettmannsperger III The person who wrote this clearly does NOT understand Buddhism and therefore knows not whereof they speak. The Buddha denied very clearly the existence of the Soul [Atman] and therefore denied both reincarnation and an afterlife of any kind. Second, the Buddhist understand of Karma is completely different from the Hindu understanding which is entirely based on the supernatural, while the Buddha's understanding is merely sound psychology.
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Innerparty Member O'Brien sorry to butt in. however the house of samsara is very much a buddhist belief. within the house reincarnation is eternal until enlightenment is reached through the human level of the house. This was taught to me many years by a buddhist monk in the uk. ive also read it in several buddhist books.
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Innerparty Member O'Brien karma very much determines which level of the house you are born into, in later reincarnations.
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Dan Hettmannsperger III Those in the know understand that the meaning of samsara is more clearly understand (like much in Buddhism) as allegory as relates to the mind and it's various states.
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Innerparty Member O'Brien ah but dan , sorry to say this, but you now sound like a Christian saying the bible is allegory...
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Dan Hettmannsperger III Christians who say the Bible is allegory are correct, since there is no other reasonable way to understand it. Certainly this is how the Jews and Hindus have understood their scriptures for more than a thousand years. Christians are for the most part dogmatists and literalist and this is the main source of their idiocy.
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Innerparty Member O'Brien ok. so are you an allegorical buddhist ? Honestly, Buddhists believe this stuff. I have spoken with many of them. When i was 22 i was seriously considering buddhism, after talking with a spiritusl leader. I have several books he gave me. They believe the world is an illusion of our mind. A trap for it, in samsara forever. They actually believe we are reincarnated throughout eternity. I guess its ok to take the good bits from any religion. But buddhism is a religion. Its defined as one. They believe these things. This is the reason i rejected it back then, because no matter how intetesting it was, I did not believe my life is an illusion.
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Dan Hettmannsperger III I've actually read the sutras and the works of all the more significant Buddhist scholars. The Buddha himself denied the existence of a soul, so there is no reincarnation and no afterlife. He was very clear on that point. Samsara and Nirvana are merely states of mind, and yes there are many myths attached to the person of Siddartha Gautama. it is unfortunate that some Buddhists take these fables as historical...but fortunately their numbers are small. Most Buddhists understand that the Buddha was merely a man with a gifted insight into the human condition.
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Dan Hettmannsperger III BTW~ The idea that "The world is an illusion" is correct if you understand what is meant by this. It is not to say that the world is a mirage. What this means is that our view of the world and this life as essentially static and unchanging is the illusion. Our belief in our own independent and separate "self" is the illusion. This is not to say that Dan Hettmannsperger III 'doesn't exist' as if I were a phantom. This is to say that I am intimately connected through time & space to my parents....my children....like a link in a chain....and that because I eat and breath I am intimately connected to the planet....both the earth and the air....as well as the oceans (I need water) and the sun (I need light) and so forth. Make sense Innerparty Member O'Brien?
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Innerparty Member O'Brien it does indeed. self grasping. However, samsara is not a state of mind. It is a clearly defined doctrine with rebirth the main theme. Read the description in the link above. It describes six levels of existence , from gods through to animals and hell. Actions in one life , karma, determines where you go in your next life. I refuse to believe this is allegory. Ancient man knew what he was making up, the same as the Christians or the jews. The allegorical belief is a cop out by modern man because the myth sounds ridiculous today.
* Dan Hettsmannsperger is my sensai.
Dan Hettmannsperger III The person who wrote this clearly does NOT understand Buddhism and therefore knows not whereof they speak. The Buddha denied very clearly the existence of the Soul [Atman] and therefore denied both reincarnation and an afterlife of any kind. Second, the Buddhist understand of Karma is completely different from the Hindu understanding which is entirely based on the supernatural, while the Buddha's understanding is merely sound psychology.
Innerparty Member O'Brien sorry to butt in. however the house of samsara is very much a buddhist belief. within the house reincarnation is eternal until enlightenment is reached through the human level of the house. This was taught to me many years by a buddhist monk in the uk. ive also read it in several buddhist books.
Innerparty Member O'Brien karma very much determines which level of the house you are born into, in later reincarnations.
Dan Hettmannsperger III Those in the know understand that the meaning of samsara is more clearly understand (like much in Buddhism) as allegory as relates to the mind and it's various states.
Innerparty Member O'Brien ah but dan , sorry to say this, but you now sound like a Christian saying the bible is allegory...
Dan Hettmannsperger III Christians who say the Bible is allegory are correct, since there is no other reasonable way to understand it. Certainly this is how the Jews and Hindus have understood their scriptures for more than a thousand years. Christians are for the most part dogmatists and literalist and this is the main source of their idiocy.
Innerparty Member O'Brien ok. so are you an allegorical buddhist ? Honestly, Buddhists believe this stuff. I have spoken with many of them. When i was 22 i was seriously considering buddhism, after talking with a spiritusl leader. I have several books he gave me. They believe the world is an illusion of our mind. A trap for it, in samsara forever. They actually believe we are reincarnated throughout eternity. I guess its ok to take the good bits from any religion. But buddhism is a religion. Its defined as one. They believe these things. This is the reason i rejected it back then, because no matter how intetesting it was, I did not believe my life is an illusion.
Dan Hettmannsperger III I've actually read the sutras and the works of all the more significant Buddhist scholars. The Buddha himself denied the existence of a soul, so there is no reincarnation and no afterlife. He was very clear on that point. Samsara and Nirvana are merely states of mind, and yes there are many myths attached to the person of Siddartha Gautama. it is unfortunate that some Buddhists take these fables as historical...but fortunately their numbers are small. Most Buddhists understand that the Buddha was merely a man with a gifted insight into the human condition.
Dan Hettmannsperger III BTW~ The idea that "The world is an illusion" is correct if you understand what is meant by this. It is not to say that the world is a mirage. What this means is that our view of the world and this life as essentially static and unchanging is the illusion. Our belief in our own independent and separate "self" is the illusion. This is not to say that Dan Hettmannsperger III 'doesn't exist' as if I were a phantom. This is to say that I am intimately connected through time & space to my parents....my children....like a link in a chain....and that because I eat and breath I am intimately connected to the planet....both the earth and the air....as well as the oceans (I need water) and the sun (I need light) and so forth. Make sense Innerparty Member O'Brien?
Innerparty Member O'Brien it does indeed. self grasping. However, samsara is not a state of mind. It is a clearly defined doctrine with rebirth the main theme. Read the description in the link above. It describes six levels of existence , from gods through to animals and hell. Actions in one life , karma, determines where you go in your next life. I refuse to believe this is allegory. Ancient man knew what he was making up, the same as the Christians or the jews. The allegorical belief is a cop out by modern man because the myth sounds ridiculous today.
* Dan Hettsmannsperger is my sensai.
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